Maryam Namazie: Why did
you do the nude action in Egypt?
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
In Egypt, a woman is like a lifeless body, a
corpse. This body is owned by other people. They think
if she doesn’t follow the rules, it is okay to beat her,
to harass her; it is okay to kill her. So the best way
to say no to all of that is to say “This is my body and
I will do whatever I want with it.”
Maryam Namazie; Is that how you felt too Amina?
Amina Sboui: It’s
mostly not just in Egypt, not just in Tunisia. It’s in
the Arab world that women are treated like that. I guess
we have the same reasons why we did it. Actually we did
it to show the world how we are treated and mostly to
try to change things. Hopefully we will be able to
change things – at least a little.
Maryam Namazie: Your
action has hit a cord with a lot of people. Do you think
there is an universality to what you say? It’s not just
the Arab world (though it is very important for the Arab
world) but it hits a cord for everyone?
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
Yes practices may differ but sexism is the same
everywhere. Maybe the practices differ, the degree
differs.
Maryam Namazie: Some
people will say that what you are doing is not
culturally appropriate; it is offensive and you’re not
respecting people’s culture.
Amina Sboui: I think
that what the old feminists did in their time was not
culturally appropriate like when they asked for women’s
vote or women to go to school. Times change and people
change. We can’t use the same methods that they use.
When we go back in time their methods were considered
inappropriate or something coming from the western
countries. People will always insult the feminists
because most of the people do not believe in equality
between men and women.
Maryam Namazie: So
you wouldn’t agree that the demand for the right over
your own body or for equality is a western demand as
that is what some have said.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
It’s like they are stripping us from the will to be
free. You’re very angry and you want to fight for your
rights and then they tell you: “No, shut up, that’s not
for you.”
Maryam Namazie:
Obviously what you did, especially because you did it in
Egypt and Tunisia, there is a great deal of risk
involved. Do you regret the risk and the fact that it
has changed your lives considerably?
Amina Sboui: If we
regretted it you wouldn’t find us like this.
Maryam Namazie: One
criticism of nude protest is that women’s bodies already
sexualised and commodified and by using your body you
are playing into the hands of sexists.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
Not our nudity. Nudity can have several meanings.
Amina Sboui: If our
nudity was pornographic, we would not face any problems.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
Yes, they would not be that angry.
Amina Sboui: There are
a lot of Arab women who do pornographic movies and who
get naked in movies and nobody says anything to them.
When we did it all the people started criticising us. We
are doing this for good reasons. We are not doing this
is a sexy way but to tell the world that the body you
spend all your life either pushing me to hide it or to
show it for sex, I’m using it for a political message.
Maryam Namazie: I think
what you do is revolutionary; I know some don’t think so
because they say nudity is not necessarily revolutionary
and it might not be. What is it that makes what you do
revolutionary and why inspired so many?
Amina Sboui: there are
so many women who have our ideas but they don’t have the
courage to do it. When Aliaa did it she encouraged me
and maybe when we do it [on 8 March in Paris], we will
encourage other girls. We just hope we will keep
encouraging people.
Maryam Namazie: Some
will say it was fine doing it in Egypt or Tunisia but
here in the west it is a different matter.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
We still have internet; we can still reach people with
our message. We were forced to leave our countries we
didn’t choose that. We would prefer to do it in Egypt
but we were forced out.
Maryam Namazie: What
would you say to Muslim women activists who say: “don’t
force your nudity on me? I find my hijab liberating”.
Amina Sboui: we are
not forcing our nudity. The pictures that they did of
Muslim women against FEMEN made me laugh. It makes me
feel that when Aliaa was in Egypt or I was in Tunisia, I
was forcing women to get naked, telling them to take off
their clothes in the street or with guns saying “take
off your clothes”. We are not forcing any women.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
I did a campaign before to publish photos of women who
willingly took off their hijab with their stories and
how they were forced to put it on or how people reacted
to it when they took it off. And people said “you want
to force women to take off their hijab”. I said “No I
want to give them a space to talk about how they are
forced to wear it.”
Also the “Muslimah
Pride” group posted pictures of children in hijab and
then they are talking about us forcing people to take
off their clothes!
Maryam Namazie: Some
women’s rights campaigners will say that nudity has no
place in the women’s rights movement. I think it is
crucial. Would you agree and why is nudity so key?
Amina Sboui: So
important because people are not used to it. In the Arab
world since we are kids our mums and our grandmums keep
telling us that our bodies are not yours, that we must
not show your body that you must hide it. When you grow
up people start to tell you to show your body. For
example people never stopped telling me I must be a
model. And then others tell you to hide it. So I think
now the main problem for women is not education or
health, we have that, (in other countries we don’t have
that but in many we do) – now it is about the body.
Aliaa Magda Elmahdy:
and it because of the view of the body that women can be
deprived of their education and everything because they
are viewed as something – not someone.
Aliaa Magda
Elmahdy is the Egyptian blogger who posted a nude photo
of herself as a scream against misogyny. Amina Sboui is
the Tunisian topless activist who was imprisoned for her
actions. |